Talk:Lord of the Western Lands

Canonicity
This article is fanon. Because this misconception is so widespread, it could deserve its own page to acknowledge that it is widely-used, but it should not be presented as though it has any backing from the anime or manga. 98.253.23.123 02:48, July 14, 2012 (UTC)Patches
 * The article is not fanon; it is clearly stated in the anime that the Inu no Taisho was the "Lord of the Western Lands." As his successor, Lord Sesshōmaru also assumes that title. Also, please start a discussion before reinstating your edit, not after. Please leave any and all pages/content concerning this subject as they are until after the conflict has been resolved. Thank you.-- Suzaku 朱雀 Maze Castle 03:07, July 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Please cite the episode where the exact term "Lord of the Western Lands" was used at all, and please cite the episode or chapter where it was stated that Sesshoumaru inherited anything other than Tenseiga from his father.
 * In chapter 499, when Sesshomaru discovers that his father's intention was to have Tetsusaiga re-absorb Tenseiga, he thinks, "This means my father intended to leave me with nothing." This implies that Tenseiga is his only inheritance, as when Sesshomaru speaks of his inheritance throughout the series, it is only Tenseiga and nothing else. No land, no castle, no servants, no army.
 * In an interview with Rumiko Takahashi in 2002, when someone asked her where Sesshomaru lived, she replied "巣があるのか？　そんな感じもしない. 私が思うに、目的地もしくはトラブル発生地点、以外は、すべて帰る処なんでしょう. いつか、物語の中で殺生丸の巣が出てくる…なんてことは、今の所なさそうです. " This translates as "Does he have a home? I don't get that feeling. What I'm thinking is that he's probably heading to wherever trouble is brewing. Someday, Sesshomaru's home might appear in the story... but really now's not the time."
 * The question came up because originally, whenever Sesshomaru would leave a battle, he'd say "帰るぞ邪見" ("Let's go home, Jaken"). The problem with this is that "帰る" is what's called a "set phrase" that is just what's used in a particular situation, even if it's not literally true. So while "帰る" literally means "to go home", Takahashi clarified that Sesshomaru is using the term in the figurative sense and does not have a "base of operation". Later, Takahashi switched to having him say "行くぞ" ("Let's go") to remove any of the confusion surrounding him having a home or not.
 * The closest thing to "Lord of the Western Lands" that ever appears in any format in the series is the description of Sesshomaru's father as being "西国を根城にした化け犬" ("The phantom dog who made the Western Lands his domain"). While this could conceivably be shorthanded into English as "Lord of the Western Lands", such a title in and of itself does not appear in any canon material.
 * So, to break apart the article as it originally stood piece by piece:
 * Lord of the Western Lands is the title conferred onto daiyōkai who have taken up the task of administering and protecting the Lands of the West.
 * As shown above, this is patently false. There is no actual title of "Lord of the Western Lands". Sesshomaru's father was only ever known as Inu no Taishou, and Sesshomaru was only ever known as, well, Sesshomaru. The cat demons did once call him "Son of the Inu no Taisho". If Sesshomaru had a title himself, why not use it? The "Lord Sesshomaru" from the English translation is being misinterpreted to mean more than it does. The original term is "Sesshomaru-sama", a term that implies respect, but does not necessitate an actual position of power.
 * It is unclear just what area this encompasses.
 * This is also untrue. Though translated into English as "Western Lands", the original term, "Saigoku", is an actual ancient region of Japan, nowadays known as the Kinki Region.
 * The Inu no Taishō was the most widely known Lord of the West, though after his death, this position was assumed by his son, Sesshōmaru.
 * As discussed above, there is no title of "Lord of the West", no one was ever called "Lord of the West", and Sesshomaru most certainly did not inherit any of his father's status or holdings aside from Tenseiga.
 * I know this is probably the biggest piece of fanon in the series, so widespread that everyone just assumes it to be true. Even I did when I first got into the series, until I caught up on the episodes and discovered it to have never been mentioned once. If I have somehow missed something, and the title of "Lord of the West" appears anywhere in any official material, please let me know. --Fast Moon (talk) 13:31, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Well, to be clear, no one here is suggesting that Sesshōmaru has a castle or an army, the fan community aside. It is clear that, in his capacity as a daiyōkai, the Inu no Taishō had the power and prestige to command several servants, among whom are Myōga, Tōtōsai, Saya, etc. Considering his power and the fact that he "ruled" over a province, it is natural that he be considered a lord. And considering that the "Western Province" or "Western Lands" is/are what he protected, it is also natural to dub him the "Lord of the Western Lands/Province." Which is essentially what we have done. While it is debatable whether or not Sesshōmaru actually inherited or assumed that position after the Inu no Taishō's death, what is indisputable is that Sesshōmaru's objective as far as we know for the entire series was "supreme conquest" and the power that would help him achieve that. He certainly had pretense for being lord of much more than just the western province. But what he actually did do on at least two occasions was to protect his father's territory from foreign invasion. It was simply assumed that this went to Sesshōmaru since primo geniture is usually recognized in such cases, especially since Sesshōmaru is a full demon and the eldest brother, and clearly more powerful than Inuyasha.-- Suzaku 朱雀 Maze Castle 15:57, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I understand that the Inu no Taishou could conceivably be dubbed such a thing. The issue is that he was not in any canon material. The main problem with this article is that it asserts that "Lord of the Western Lands is the title conferred onto daiyōkai who have taken up the task of administering and protecting the Lands of the West." The problem with this is that the title is conferred by the fandom, thus by definition rendering it fanon. This article is like saying "Miroku carries the title of Bearer of the Wind Tunnel." No one's arguing whether or not he inherited the Wind Tunnel from his father. I'm arguing that, until anyone actually refers to him as such, it's disingenuous to assert that such a title exists.--Fast Moon (talk) 02:58, July 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Looking back on it, I agree that the way it is phrased makes it seem like a title that came from canon material. However, just because it is never expressly stated as such in the manga or anime does not mean that we cannot establish such a position in an unofficial context. You can refer to someone as "Leader of Country X" even though "Leader" is not their official title. I will adjust the article's content to reflect what I can surmise to be the consensus of this discussion.-- Suzaku 朱雀 Maze Castle 04:15, July 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I do agree this update is somewhat more reflective of canon, yes, and I do appreciate that you're willing to compromise. However, as it stands now, I still question the merit of even having this article at all. Having a sentence on the Inu no Taishou's main article that he made the Western Country his domain seems sufficient to cover this. For instance, the article for Sango and Kohaku's father calls him "The chieftain of Yōkai Taijiya Village", however "Chieftan of Yokai Taijiya Village" does not have its own article stating that it was the position held by Sango's father, and then after his death, it can be assumed it was conferred on to Sango herself. Such an article would both be redundant and basing half its content on assumption, which is what I believe this article to be. I can accept the article as it is now, but in my ideal world, it wouldn't exist at all. :P --Fast Moon (talk) 12:43, July 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * True, though, as a position, the Chieftain of the Yokai Taijiya Village has a much smaller impact on the plot of the series than the Inu no Taishō does in his capacity as the ruler of the Western Province.-- Suzaku 朱雀 Maze Castle 15:00, July 15, 2012 (UTC)